EP49 - 2025 The Year of Choice and Control for Advertisers with Jon Finnie

Corby Fine: [00:00:00] So it is 2025, and it is time for me to relaunch my podcast. I am so excited to have my first guest of the year and the new season, who is someone I have crossed paths with many times in the Canadian marketing, advertising, martech, and media environments. Jon Finney, who is currently the head of international sales for Yahoo Ads. 

I've known him for quite some time. He is responsible for driving revenue across all of Yahoo's consumer properties, which includes Yahoo News, Yahoo Sports, where I might participate in a few fantasy pools (I don't do very well), Yahoo Finance, and the DSP programmatic advertising data platform. There are so many things that Yahoo does, and I know it's one of those names synonymous with all of our beginnings on the internet, both from a consumer content consumption perspective, as well as a marketer and an advertiser. Prior to Yahoo, Jon had different senior roles at multiple brands, including Diageo, Virgin Media, and Chorus Entertainment, progressively growing his career and now leading an incredible iconic brand in the Canadian market. Jon, welcome to the podcast today.

Jon Finnie: Corby, that's quite the opening. I feel the pressure to deliver, but it's great to see you again. Great to connect, and is it still too late to say happy new year? [00:02:00]

Corby Fine: No, we're good. We're in January.

Jon Finnie: Happy new year, mate.

Corby Fine: Thank you. Jon, you've seen a lot of change in this industry. You talk to different brands, agencies, and marketers. One of the things we've always had to deal with is this notion of ambiguity. None of us are magic fortune tellers or oracles with crystal balls knowing where things are going. But from your perspective, as you look at the next year and moving forward in this world of ambiguity, what do you see as steps or things that the overall industry should take when it comes to enhancing transparency for marketers, measuring success, and the things that we always just don't fully understand? We put so much trust in the ecosystem.

Jon Finnie: Yeah, thanks. For me, it's several things, Corby. One is about giving buyers control. The industry should be prioritizing empowering buyers with more control over their campaigns throughout the entire buying process. It's essential for buyers to maintain control, give them the flexibility to choose their own data sources, curate supply, and make decisions that align with their specific brand goals.

On supply curation, supply and data are very important. Marketers can manage supply, premium publishers, channels, and formats that best align with their objectives. Giving people the flexibility to make their own informed choices is much better than having that forced upon them. Using our DSP, for example, you want to allow choice and control for the advertiser to access the supply they want, using the data they want, not have somebody grade their own homework, but use third-party companies to validate the success of a campaign so that we're not the ones saying, "Oh, this campaign delivered X, Y, and Z. It's amazing. Let's invest more." Let's have somebody else be the arbiters of what's successful and allow the advertisers to run that control themselves.

Corby Fine: Following up on that, I guess with all of the new privacy concerns and regulations coming in, whether it's the UK, California, Quebec, some normalization at some point, I assume lowest common denominator, what do platforms like Yahoo plan to do to empower the marketer with control and choice, in spite of all of these regulations and this perpetual shift to a cookie-less environment?

Jon Finnie: Yeah. We have a very privacy-centric approach at Yahoo. As part of our evolution, we were once owned by Telco brands, probably very familiar with that. Very risk-averse, particularly about how we manage privacy. So that's kind of part of our lifeblood. We want to be very careful about how we utilize our data. Now we are a global company, so all of the regions that you mentioned, we need to make sure that we are adhering to every single rule and regulation globally. And I feel like we do a really good job of that. 

Where it comes from a DSP perspective is how do we ensure that the advertisers can use a DSP that is regulated, understands privacy control, and they feel confident that the data they're getting from our data has been vetted and is legal, their data is the same, and any third-party data that they want to use within our DSP has the same rigor and regulations with which they'll manage their own data set.

Corby Fine: So coming back to the fact that Yahoo has all of these different content verticals and channels of interest, and then talking about privacy control, what are you seeing then in terms of this mix between that ultra-niche targeting and audience-based versus maybe a little bit of let's go back to 1999 and start to talk about contextual placements? What are you seeing, given the fact that Yahoo does have so many different content angles and channels?

Jon Finnie: Eighteen out of ten Canadians visit Yahoo each and every month. It could be one of the 11 million finance users, one of the 5 to 6 million sports users. You said yourself, you're a fantasy user. We have unique access to consumers coming to our properties each month. We're top five in news, lifestyle, entertainment, top three in mail. We have a search property. All this information and content allows users to come and engage with us on a regular basis. And because we have access to that content, we have information on those users that allows us to target users both on and off our network in a privacy-centric approach.

We have our solution called Connect ID, which is the combination of the 7 million logged-in users in the Canadian market space. Utilizing that data to access those users, regardless of where they are. We also have privacy-centric access. We can also make informed decisions based on user behavior, the content they're looking at, the location they're in, and using that contextual relevance to target those users off our network. Because we have access to that information, we'll be able to see users both on and off, which really helps us to drive success. 

We're seeing a much greater focus on contextual relevancy than we've ever seen before, as we shift to Chromageddon, where we lose all cookies, which at some point will happen, maybe this year, maybe next year, maybe even in the next 10 years. We see a prevalence of marketers looking to reach contextually engaging and safe environments, and we feel best placed at Yahoo to offer them that on our consumer properties, but also utilize that data to then find those users across the entire ecosphere.

Corby Fine: Chromageddon. Love it. I think that's now in my lexicon. Two letters: AI. The big two letters. So, as a marketer, as a consumer, as a podcast editor, as someone trying to help edit my kid's university and high school papers, I have become an astute user of prompting and different tools, but that's simple stuff. What I'm seeing from the marketing, advertising, content generation, and analytics exercises where AI is starting to play a part is seemingly monstrous in terms of its impact. What are you seeing right now? And what can you talk about in terms of AI being embedded within Yahoo's ecosystem, dynamic creative campaign optimization, audience targeting, and analytics? Where are you guys going with AI?

Jon Finnie: Yeah. We see more agencies are seeking AI-driven solutions to reduce costs and increase the speed of output. Around 81 percent of Canadian advertisers are experimenting in some way, shape, or form with AI tools. Advertisers are using AI-driven tools to streamline workflows and enhance campaign precision, but not all AI is created alike.

We'll see an increase in the usage of AI tools, but also an increase in scrutiny over what these tools do and how they're used. At Yahoo, we have a couple of ways that we're utilizing AI. First is Yahoo Blueprint, which is our version of an enhanced AI model that delivers superior outcomes, enhances campaign efficiencies, and provides new AI-powered features. The advanced AI algorithm we use drives incremental efficiencies and significant performance improvements to advertisers throughout decisioning and supply curation, enabling advertisers to achieve their goals more efficiently. One of the things we consider at Yahoo in the use of AI is putting the choice and control back to the advertiser.

So even though we have Yahoo Blueprint that does improve campaign efficiencies and we have campaign objectives like Porter, a great example where we've shown a lowering of CPA goals based on the utilization of Yahoo Blueprint, we don't feel like we should automatically put that across all campaigns across our DSP. We allow the advertiser to say, "I like this feature," and choose to opt in or out of that offering. We have our dynamic creative optimization tool, one of the few DSPs that allows people to utilize DCO within the DSP breadth, on and off our DSP, and that utilizes AI to decision the right ad to the right user at the right time, depending upon the content they viewed, the behaviors they've seen, and what's most likely to convert. But again, choice and control. It's up to the advertiser if they wish to participate in that part of our offering, or if they choose to bring their own in-house offering within the DSP.

Corby Fine: The choice of which ad and the optimization using the AI engines is quite interesting. I have had some personal experience with creative optimization within, not your platform, another one to test. And yeah, I can see how some brands from a comfort and control perspective wouldn't necessarily like some of the output. I have yet to see substantial gains in terms of a combination of AI-driven optimization plus creative manipulation, we'll call it, in real time. I think there's a long way to go there. In the creative process, that complete end-to-end content supply chain is still done in-house or within an agency. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on there. From your perspective on the media side, taking those different versions and forms of asset output and then letting the engine help optimize is a really interesting two-stepper. Where it gets merged together is interestingly downstream. How can Yahoo take pieces of assets, recompile in real time, and essentially say, it's actually this combination of headline, image, placement, size, audience, day, time, device, etc.? I don't know how close we are to that. I don't know a lot of brands, including maybe some that you worked with in the past, that would allow for that, but that's an interesting potential future.

Jon Finnie: Absolutely. Yeah, DCO in itself is still in its infancy. It's been around for a while, and I think AI is only going to further allow it to increase in scope. You're going to get efficiencies in terms of how campaigns are set up, how campaigns are tracked and monitored, to allow a plethora of ads to show, not just like two different ads in a given campaign, but hundreds of thousands of ads to any given user at any given time. It's a great opportunity for advertisers to tweak and monitor. Now, it's a brand manager's worst nightmare to have all of those assets out there and changing creative because we know that everyone needs to approve. But if you can allow yourself that flexibility to change the ad format to drive conversions, I think it's a great opportunity for brands to embrace and to see the true evolution of both DCO and AI together.

Corby Fine: So you talked earlier about on the Yahoo platform as well as off the platform. And so when you think about cross-channel measurement, optimizing campaign design and deployment, what do you see? Because I think, you know, most media players say something similar. They have extended networks, different data sets. What's the competitive edge that you guys really hold to and believe in, in this crowded landscape of different media options? As an advertiser's got tons of choice, what is Yahoo offering that really differentiates it from the other platforms?

Jon Finnie: We see Yahoo as being the internet. We've got over 30 years of experience in the field. We've connected hundreds of millions of people around the world to the things they love most in our vast properties like search, news, mail, finance, and sports, and a sophisticated DSP on top of that. Our reach, we have 8 out of 10 Canadians using Yahoo, 94 percent of Canadians trust the Yahoo brand and name. Our DSP was recently ranked the number one DSP for performance and customer service as part of the Digiday 2024 awards. Very few companies out there have the legacy experience that we do, reaching that many people on any given month. In a global way, like in the US, we reach nine out of 10 Americans, which is just huge given the size of that market. We have a backstage offering, which is direct-to-publisher, that allows customers to tap into supply without going through several SSPs, and so to find efficiencies to access supply directly is massive. We have Blueprint, which is powered by trusted, authenticated Yahoo ads data, decades of experience informing our tools and algorithm to drive the strongest performance.

We feel we have a lot to offer. We feel we have solid and vast experience, and the fact that we're keeping up to date with AI, allowing users choice and control to use third-party validation. We just announced agreements with Jamps, Peer39, and Scope3. These are all companies that do a very good job in that particular space. We're saying, look, use our DSP, validate with these third parties that you have the choice and control and access to supply, and then determine how we've been successful versus us telling you how you've been successful. Not everybody does that, but we do, as I'm sure you know well.

Corby Fine: So, I loved the "30 years we are the internet" line. And just for fun, having just gone back in the Wayback Machine online and taking a look at February 10th, 1998, Yahoo.ca homepage. The top links, outside of the fact that it was still mostly a directory structure at the time, were Valentine's Day, RRSP Spotlight, and the Nagano Winter Games, just for context. I think you guys should bring back the social science category, with anthropology and sociology as the top two links, and the cool links. I wonder what was on cool links back then, but that's a whole other conversation.

Jon Finnie: I will pass your feedback on to the powers that be, Corby, and see if we can make this happen.

Corby Fine: The reason I went back was because then if we look back, we have to look forward. And when we think about the future, I'd love to get your take, put on your magic hat. As we look into the rest of 2025, we've got a whole year ahead of us. What do you see as the biggest challenges and opportunities for marketers in our digital advertising space?

Jon Finnie: Yeah, 2025 is shaping up to be the year of growth and innovation. With the rise of AI, retail media, and CTV, it's a great time for brands to take control and find new ways to succeed. A few challenges and opportunities coming up include navigating the cookie-less future. Third-party cookies phase out, and advertisers will need to adopt privacy-first strategies, focusing on contextual advertising, first-party data, and alternative identity solutions. I've been saying cookie-less future for a while. I feel like we're back in the year of mobile from years ago. Now I truly am dating myself. It could be where every year would be the year of mobile. But clients, advertisers, and agencies need to understand that cookies will be going away in some way, shape, or form as users look to have a more privacy-centric approach to their browsing habits. Being able to work with brands and technology that allows you to reach and engage users is going to be a priority as they start to disappear. Diversification of ad spend across platforms. With increased scrutiny of major platforms and the rise of new channels, advertisers will look to spread their budgets across multiple platforms, including smaller, more transparent ones to mitigate risks. Retail media will continue to rise as a key growth engine, offering advertisers more control over targeting and data syncing across platforms. Challenges for retail media include reach, frequency, and measurement because there are just a plethora of options out there. CTV continues to have massive growth, expected 10 percent growth to 1.3 billion in Canada by the end of this year.

AI as a creative catalyst, at least. We've heard and spoken about how AI has changed. The proliferation of AI into the ecosphere and what that means. I think on the creative side, it will continue to transform the creative processes, campaign optimization, and it'll help advertisers to improve efficiency and reduce costs. The caveat is you just need to be careful what data you're allowing access to, so that it's managed and run in a privacy-centric way.

Corby Fine: You didn't say I was going to win one of my hockey or football pools. I feel like you're missing some predictions.

Jon Finnie: I thought you said predictions, mate. I didn't realize we were talking about fantasy. Yes, the clue is in the name: fantasy sport.

Corby Fine: Yeah, any tips and tricks are helpful. So just last question on something you said, the retail media space. I'd love to get your take on what you see as the evolution of that. What's Yahoo doing in that space? Are you partnering? Are you empowering? There's a lot of noise. There are some existing incumbents. There are a lot of people trying to get in. What's your 30-second take on that space?

Jon Finnie: We want to partner with people. We want to ingest retail data into our platform, ingest advertiser data into our platform, and utilize the millions of Canadians that we see each day and how they're browsing within our DSP. The combination of all those data sets within our DSP should allow them to get what they need and achieve those objectives versus using other technology platforms to try and somehow reach that one data nirvana that everyone's kind of pushing as the best thing ever. So I'd say growth and consolidation. We feel like Yahoo, by partnering and giving choice and control to clients and by working with those retail brands and datasets and ingesting that into our DSP, we feel we're best placed to be the place that advertisers go to reach and engage with those consumers.

Corby Fine: As a buyer, I'm fully aligned. I appreciate that. Jon Finnie, head of international sales for Yahoo Ads, driving revenue across the Yahoo network. I really appreciate you spending the time giving us a little bit of insight into your product, personal and organizational growth, and opinion. Have a great 2025, both personally and for Yahoo.

Jon Finnie: Thank you, Corby. I appreciate you inviting me on your show. I wish you all the success. Good luck in your fantasy programs.

Corby Fine: I'll send you my user ID later. See what you can do.

Jon Finnie: For sure, mate.

Corby Fine: Thanks, Jon. Take care. [00:20:00]